Tuesday, April 7, 2009

Sister, My Sister

"Complementary and Alternative Medicine is mostly modern superstitious drivel marketed to people who are, in their knowledge of science and reason, no better than seventh century peasants except that Dark Age peasants had an excuse to be ignorant as they had marauding Norsemen competing for their attention. 

On the other hand most people don’t think about medicine that much and have no reason to distrust their chiropractor so allow me clear something up for you: Chiropractors, naturopaths and other Alternative Medicine practitioners do not have the same training and education as medical doctors, not in quality and not in quantity, not by a long shot, and therefore they are not qualified to serve as primary care physicians, a job that requires more than some haphazard study of herb lore or a cursory knowledge of the spine. If they had the same training including residency training they would be qualified…but they don’t so they’re not.

Take your typical chiropractor, for example.  He has a four-year degree at an institution that was probably nothing but a federal student loan processing mill in which the odds are he never saw a really sick patient, at least not one that wasn’t immediately taken to the nearest Emergency Department.  Unlike your Family Physician who has four years of medical school followed by an intensive three year residency, your chiropractor has never rotated on a pediatric ward, in the Intensive Care Unit, on an internal medicine service, a surgery service, or any other of the medical services in which the core knowledge of every physician is developed.  He has done no call, been responsible for exactly nothing during his brief pseudo-medical training and has never had to make a decision that mattered to anybody. 

More than likely he slithered through chiropractic school making a mental list of the many, many things he would never have to worry about (I mean, assuming he was introspective enough for this) and that he would defer to real doctors.  He is, therefore along with his naturopath cousins eminently unsuited to recognize, diagnose, and treat general medical complaints.

The funny thing is that I would never try to pass myself off as a surgeon, an obstetrician, an internist, or a neurologists because I lack the training and knowledge to honestly represent myself to the public as something I am not…

And yet naturopaths, chiropractors, and the whole pack of Snake Oil Salesmen with a fraction of the training required for the job lack the humility, the self-awareness that comes with an appreciation of their own limitations, to consider that maybe, just maybe, they don’t know enough to be primary care physicians.

No doubt your Chiropractor can fill out forms with the best of them and correctly bill your insurance company but if you have a medical problem serious enough to warrant treatment you should see a real doctor and eliminate the useless middleman. Likewise if you really care about your long-term health.

Not to mention that the primary treatment modalities of practioners of Complementary and Alternative Medicine are extremely ridiculous on a fifth grade biology level. 

To believe in them, things like subluxations and Reiki, is to place yourself in the company of drooling cretins."


-- Panda Bear, M.D., beating the NewAge bastards about the head - with a stethoscope! - at our renowned "sister" blog, Panda Bear, M.D..

17 comments:

  1. By chiropractor's own admittance,
    chiropractic was invented by a man (Palmer) who, after working various jobs, became a "magnetic healer" with a primary goal to find the ultimate cause of disease. While studying and using magnetic healing, Palmer's ideas began to turn from magnets to the spine.

    "To put it in a nutshell, Palmer became convinced that problems with the spine were the cause of almost all diseases."

    In other words, an itinerant salesman (which is what Palmer was) comes to the goofy and uneducated preDarwinian teleological conclusion that illness originates from the nerves, and nerves from the spine and therefore fixing the spine fixes the illness.

    For this we spent hundreds of millions of government and private dollars each year, while we whine about spending 13% of the GDP on "health care."

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  2. "Chiropractors, naturopaths and other Alternative Medicine practitioners do not have the same training and education as medical doctors, not in quality and not in quantity, not by a long shot, and therefore they are not qualified to serve as primary care physicians"

    so could you please back this up? I'm a chiropractic student and we take more hours of anatomy than MD's...go figure!Although we do not complete a residency at a hospital we do complete one at our clinic.

    Here's a link to our curriculum:
    http://www.palmer.edu/pccf_current2.aspx?id=1072
    and here's one to Stanford's Med school: http://med.stanford.edu/md/curriculum/

    compare them and you wont see much difference. They learn about drugs and we'll learn about adjustments. I'd love you to ask me any questions you have.

    have a great day!

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  3. Read the previous comment and explain how you can practice a a goofy charlatan's technique with a straight face - or can you?

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  4. I really don't care what D.D said over a hundred years ago. I also love how this person's opinion (Dr. T) becomes your ultimate proven truth. If chiropractic were just some goofy technique there would not be chiropractors in every town or people to go seen them. A majority of elite professional athletes use and embrace chiropractic. There are also many uses outside the realm of pain.

    I was simply trying to tell you all that chiropractic college is equivalent to medical school, as well as osteopathic medicine school.

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  5. Thank you for all of your terms of endearment, they really touched me. Except I'm not sure what a cultist is. Could you explain it to me?

    Yes the schools are equivalent, no we do not provide the same services. I would never tell someone in need of emergency medicine to visit their chiropractor, that's just insane. Nor would you tell someone who needs emergency assistance to go see an orthopedic surgeon or even a GP. They'll do the same thing a DC would, that is call 911.

    If you don't mind me asking Crack, what do you do, have you gone to chiropractic or medical school? Do you have any real authority on these subjects?

    And please let me apologize that science still hasn't caught up to how chiropractic works. But it is starting to. It's just really hard to get grant money when you don't rub elbows with the pharmaceutical giants.

    One such study that my MD professor just presented showed that manipulation(aka chiropractic adjustment) of an immobilized joint caused re-grown of alpha motor neurons.Basically people who had muscle atrophy began to regrow muscle and become stronger bc they went to their chiropractor. Amazing huh?

    If chiropractic doesn't work, then why do insurance companies pay for it. Why does it cost less for patients with low back pain to be cared for chiropractically rather than medically? Why can chiropractors reduce the Cobb angles for people(especially kids) with scoliosis without the help of a huge awkward brace? Asthma,hypertension colic, heartburn, headaches, migraines...a myraid of ailments can be helped with chiropractic.

    You can go a few weeks without food, a few days without water, but only a few seconds without nerve impulses. As for Chiropractors the patient is seen as a WHOLE, not symptoms, and the nervous system is our main focus by restoring homeostasis through very conservative non-invasive manual therapy is what we do.

    If you would like me to get you some research papers on these subjects let me know, i'll have to email them to you though.

    ps: "Jesus, you're dumb:

    Popularity doesn't equal efficacy."

    MD's are much more popular that DC's if you have not noticed. MD's treat a symptom, here choke down these pills, they are no more than chemical engineers for MOST situations, not all.

    I would appreciate if you left the Lord's name out of our conversation. Oh and check the links, you'll see that the curriculum is very similar.
    Cheers!

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  6. "a cursory knowledge of the spine"

    if chiropractors only had a cursory knowledge of the spine, and being that they are primary care providers, then why do they have one of the lowest malpractice insurance rates in the health profession? If they didn't have much knowledge wouldn't they be messing everyone of their patients up?

    "Take your typical chiropractor, for example. He has a four-year degree at an institution that was probably nothing but a federal student loan processing mill in which the odds are he never saw a really sick patient, at least not one that wasn’t immediately taken to the nearest Emergency Department."

    I think the reason we never see what you call "a really sick patient" is that chiropractors do not administer emergency medicine. There have been many times that a patient comes into our school clinic and from just monitoring vitals and a few orthopedic tests the ambulance was called. So it is not an everyday occurrence, but it is possible that we will get to see these "really sick patients" you speak so highly of.

    "No doubt your Chiropractor can fill out forms with the best of them and correctly bill your insurance company..."

    actually chiropractors are horrible at filing out Medicare Forms. And when they don't fill them out right they don't get paid.

    My professors that are DC's have told us of situations where they are the ones who find the cancer on the xray that was taken by the MD, but it wouldn't surprise me that you're not interested in these clinical experiences.

    "The funny thing is that I would never try to pass myself off as a surgeon, an obstetrician, an internist, or a neurologists because I lack the training and knowledge to honestly represent myself to the public as something I am not…"

    Neither do/nor would I hommie. Although there are chiropractic neurologist who must complete a rigorous 300 hour course and final exam to become one. They also have these certifications, called Diplomates, for radiology, pediatrics, sports, applied kinesiology, internist, rehab, nutrition and a few others I'm sure you don't care about. Also if you are trained at some of the West coast DC schools part of you coursework is in obstetrics. I believe if you are in Oregon and Washington State a DC can deliver your baby, personally I think a midwife would be a better choice though.

    Lastly I'm not saying everyone is a candidate for chiropractic care. But there are many people out there who are and can improve there life. For instance herniated discs....do you want highly invasive back surgery that generally doesn't help or go to a chiropractor and actually start feeling better?

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  7. *300 hours post-doctorate to become a diplomate.

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  8. wow that's a little harsh. Why are you so vulgar? Do you think it's intimidating? bc it's not.

    "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You two must think we're as stupid as your patients"

    At least I'm trying to listen, rather understand what you are trying to tell me. Everything I talk to you about you don't even want to read. So this post will probably be a big waste of time, but what the heck here we go:

    ""Do you want highly invasive back surgery that generally doesn't help or go to a chiropractor and actually start feeling better?"I've had "highly invasive back surgery that generally doesn't help" and it's done wonders for my life, so what are you talking about?"

    The failure rate of surgery for low back pain is very high. On average, about 53 percent of all L5-S1 disc surgeries fail to produce relief of symptoms.(Radin, E.L. "Reasons for failure of L5-S1 intervertebral disc excisions." International Orthop 1987; 11:255-259.) That is what I'm talking about. Also the Biscup Spine Institute specializes in, get this, failed back surgeries. If they always go so right then what is this guy doing that's so special? What about going to an MD for decompression therapy (or a DC for the same thing or even better flexion and distraction) for a disc problem, you mean they do the same thing w/o surgery, WOW!

    Okay that's awesome that surgery worked for you and it may for the next person and the next but maybe not that guy....why do you think chiropractic cannot do the same for people. It IS going to help some and WON'T for others. That's when a prudent DC says (whether its the 1st or 3rd or 40th visit) well I think you should go see this doc or I'd like to co-manage your case with these other doctors. I know chiropractic is not the end all be all health care and I think you believe my philosophy is just that. This is why you like to hate me so much. Once again: ignorant.

    Let me get ONE thing straight: I believe in medicine. I don't hate MD's much like you would like me to. And I'm glad your back surgery went well, btw my aunt's did too. There is a time and a place for everything.

    I really am troubled to see your authority on our first point though. How do you know that chiropractic school is any less difficult then medical school without ever stepping foot in either one? Oh i get it now, you're God and you know it all. If you had though we could actually have a meaningful debate.

    You are the one spouting nonsense. If I recall correctly Jesus loves everyone, especially people who help others. I highly doubt he would come back to call me "an asshole for being so cynical and stupid, and you'd still be insisting he doesn't know what he's talking about because you've got support for it" really dude?

    "because you've got support for it (so do crack dealers, BTW)"
    Please show me some support, ie research for crack dealers. If you find that I'll never talk to you again, hands down you win.

    Would you call a professional with MD and DC degrees, who chooses to practice the later an idiot. bc by your standards he/she is a genius since he/she went to an almighty med school. And one of the brightest professors at my school did just this, now and for the last 20 years he's practiced chiropractic, not medicine.

    How often do chiro's screw people over, once again research please.
    I guess the medical professionals never ever chop off the wrong limb, or put someone under for surgery and they never wake up, or after waking up they have a heart attack, I believe the current stat on that last one is 25% of people 70 and older have a heart attack. Risky huh? And the current research for a dissection of the vertebrobasilar artery is here:

    Risk of vertebrobasilar stroke and chiropractic care: results of a population-based case-control and case-crossover study.
    Cassidy JD, Boyle E, Côté P, He Y, Hogg-Johnson S, Silver FL, Bondy SJ.

    Centre of Research Expertise for Improved Disability Outcomes, University Health Network Rehabilitation Solutions, Toronto Western Hospital, Toronto, ON, Canada. dcassidy@uhnresearch.ca

    STUDY DESIGN: Population-based, case-control and case-crossover study. OBJECTIVE: To investigate associations between chiropractic visits and vertebrobasilar artery (VBA) stroke and to contrast this with primary care physician (PCP) visits and VBA stroke. SUMMARY OF BACKGROUND DATA: Chiropractic care is popular for neck pain and headache, but may increase the risk for VBA dissection and stroke. Neck pain and headache are common symptoms of VBA dissection, which commonly precedes VBA stroke. METHODS: Cases included eligible incident VBA strokes admitted to Ontario hospitals from April 1, 1993 to March 31, 2002. Four controls were age and gender matched to each case. Case and control exposures to chiropractors and PCPs were determined from health billing records in the year before the stroke date. In the case-crossover analysis, cases acted as their own controls. RESULTS: There were 818 VBA strokes hospitalized in a population of more than 100 million person-years. In those aged <45 years, cases were about three times more likely to see a chiropractor or a PCP before their stroke than controls. Results were similar in the case control and case crossover analyses. There was no increased association between chiropractic visits and VBA stroke in those older than 45 years. Positive associations were found between PCP visits and VBA stroke in all age groups. Practitioner visits billed for headache and neck complaints were highly associated with subsequent VBA stroke. CONCLUSION: VBA stroke is a very rare event in the population. The increased risks of VBA stroke associated with chiropractic and PCP visits is likely due to patients with headache and neck pain from VBA dissection seeking care before their stroke. We found no evidence of excess risk of VBA stroke associated chiropractic care compared to primary care.

    Make sure you read those last 2 sentences if you don't read it at all.

    So how do you know your VBA's are healthy, you gonna MRA everyone?(that's right MRA - magnetic resonance angiogram, didn't think chiros knew about those huh?) Good thing those only cost $2000 a pop.

    I would call you an idiot but that would just be mean, rather I think you are just ignorant.

    Here's another study for you by 2 of my teachers at Palmer College of Chiropractic - FL. And guess what? They are MD's...crazy how we get along when fine gentlemen like yourself aren't around.

    Extrinsic and intrinsic innervation of the guinea pig knee joint: toward an animal model for manipulative therapy.
    He X, La Rose J, Zhang N, Hong SP.

    Palmer College of Chiropractic Florida, Port Orange, Fla 32129, USA. shawn.he@palmer.edu

    OBJECTIVES: Besides spinal conditions, knee joint problems are one of the most common ailments of the musculoskeletal system. Problems with the knee can be classified into (1) poor mechanics, (2) traumatic injury, and (3) arthritic changes. All these problems can produce pain. Conservative treatment such as chiropractic manipulative therapy can be helpful in alleviating some of the pain. The present study was carried out to investigate the extrinsic and intrinsic innervation of the knee joint of the guinea pig in the hope of shedding light on future study of the underlying mechanism of chiropractic manipulative therapy on knee joint pain conditions. METHODS: A total of 16 guinea pigs were used in the present study. Microdissection was performed to reveal the gross anatomy of nerve innervation. Histology and immunohistochemistry were also performed to identify nerve endings and immunoreactive fibers in different articular tissues. RESULTS: Gross dissection revealed the general pattern of guinea pig knee joint innervation. By using gold chloride preparations, various kinds of nerves and terminals or endings were identified in these tissues. Immunohistochemistry also revealed immunoreactivities in nerve fibers in different joint tissues. CONCLUSIONS: The distribution of the different nerve endings showed a characteristic pattern in different articular tissues. They were considered to be mechanoreceptors (types I, II, and III) and pain receptors (type IV). The structural characteristics and distribution patterns of the different types of nerve endings suggest that the roles of the different nerve endings vary in different parts of the articular tissues.

    If you would like any explanations I would be happy to explain it for you, as you will not tell me if you have some higher medical education.

    peace out buddy, can't wait to see your rebuttal(oh and try not to swear so much, we are talking about educational subjects there's no need for it).

    yours truly,
    scum bag

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  9. FemaleDCstudentFloridaMay 11, 2009 at 5:06 PM

    Actually, in the last post it was 3of our MD teachers that worked on that study.

    As far as the schooling goes, we have almost 4000 contact hours within our 3.25 years of curriculum on top of 4 years worth of undergrad with all of the necessary sciences (biochem, organic chem, physics, chemistry, kinesiology etc). We do a full years worth of clinic duties in our outpatient clinic as well as a preceptorship where the student chooses. Our curriculum is rigorous (neuroanatomy, anatomy lab, biochem, physical exams, chiropractic adjustment classes, as well many practicals in which we need to differentially diagnose patients. We have 3 sets of boards to take in order to claim our DOCTORATE in chiropractic. As far as us not being as smart as MDs, not true!! I personally took my MCATs and would have easily been able to get into med school if that was my chosen route.

    One thing that is essential to mention is that chiropractic actually listens to the patient, rather than just giving them pill after pill or going straight to surgery. I understand that your surgery worked for you, great, but did you try anything else before a very expensive and painful surgery? why not try something less invasive first?

    Obviously you are alot like medical doctors, you don't listen very well and you think you know everything. Not all doctors are like that, but many are. Why would you want to be so ignorant to shut out valuable information that could be helpful to you or in the doctos case, their patients. Many doctors now a days are starting to accept the value of chiropractic, as is evident since at Palmer Florida we have many teachers who are MDs that swear by chiropractic.

    In responding to your rediculous, my classmate and I are not trying to encourage your ignorance and rudeness, rather we are trying to encourage new awareness and expose you to what chiropractic can do. Maybe chiropractic is not your thing, cool thats fine, but dont bash it for everyone else!!!! Let alone disrespect all of us who are in the profession!

    I know that I personally was not big into chiropractic until it saved my life. I remember thinking how is chiropractic going to help me...within weeks I was back to functioning (something which over 1.5 years of medical treatment could not do) Before chiropractic, I was out of school for almost a year, in intense pain and non-functioning. I had lots of imaging, blood tests, and had enough pain meds in my system to cause a hole in my stomach, yet nothing worked...chiropractic was my savor!! So dont bash it for those who it has worked for! There are countless other stories extremely similar to mine!!

    Just think about the things you say, your just making yourself look bad. Plus there is no need to bring God into this!! Think about it!

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  10. FemaleDCstudentFlorida,

    First, if you were any kind of doctor/scientist/thinker, you'd know that your personal story means nothing when presented as evidence for chiropractic's efficacy. It's just another story. Big deal. Show some real proof. Chiropractic has been studied for ages and always comes up bullshit. Just because snake oil salesmen have been allowed to operate in society's grey areas doesn't mean anything they do is legit.

    Second, why should I leave God out of it? Or are you admitting, as all cultists eventually do, that your silly belief system would be nothing without some kind of "spiritual" mumbo-jumbo thrown in?

    "Think about it!"? Lady, I've given it more thought than your dumb ass could ever comprehend, and at the tender age of 10 I knew better than to believe such nonsense. (Watching people kill each other wantonly can do that - where was your loving God then?) You're a sheltered, pampered, idiot who has decided exploiting others in pain is a good occupation, and nothing more. You're parasites on the medical profession, which has to fix the messes you dummies cause, and should be arrested for your stupidity and cynicism.

    The world would be a better place without you.

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  11. StudentDC,

    "wow that's a little harsh. Why are you so vulgar? Do you think it's intimidating? bc it's not."Dude, I talk the way I talk. "Vulgar"? How about you're an elitist twit? Ever considered that?

    "why do you think chiropractic cannot do the same for people. It IS going to help some and WON'T for others. That's when a prudent DC says (whether its the 1st or 3rd or 40th visit) well I think you should go see this doc or I'd like to co-manage your case with these other doctors."As a back patient, I've seen more than my share of chiropractors, working on my back and others, but I've never - never - had one suggest anything but more chiropractic. You're a liar in a lying profession, and I know it, so save your bullshit for the less informed.

    "Let me get ONE thing straight: I believe in medicine. I don't hate MD's much like you would like me to."Ahh, but do they like YOU? That's the question. But you could care less because you're going to shove your bullshit down their throats - and into their profession - whether they like you or not, right? Yea, that's some respect you have for them, boy-o.

    "How do you know that chiropractic school is any less difficult then medical school without ever stepping foot in either one?"What? Do you think chiro exists without a history, stupid? It's quackery and always has been. It's "inventor" was a magnetic healer! You can't get more quack than that. And the rest of you just keep it going, despite it's history of failure. What now? Are you going to show me all the case studies of it's success, or just keep giving me your bullshit stories of how wonderful it is?

    "If I recall correctly Jesus loves everyone, especially people who help others."Dummy, there was no Jesus.

    "Please show me some support, ie research for crack dealers. If you find that I'll never talk to you again, hands down you win."What now? You're going to deny that crack dealers have buyers who swear it's the greatest thing since sliced bread - even as it kills them? Go away.

    "Would you call a professional with MD and DC degrees, who chooses to practice the later an idiot. bc by your standards he/she is a genius since he/she went to an almighty med school. And one of the brightest professors at my school did just this, now and for the last 20 years he's practiced chiropractic, not medicine."As long as you're admitting chiro ain't medicine I'm happy.

    "I guess the medical professionals never ever chop off the wrong limb, or put someone under for surgery and they never wake up, or after waking up they have a heart attack,..."Idiot: that still doesn't prove your shit works. God, for someone who considers himself doctor material, you sure are dumb.

    Calling chiropractors "doctors" is as good as calling homeopaths doctors - do you think water is medicine as well?

    "peace out buddy, can't wait to see your rebuttal(oh and try not to swear so much, we are talking about educational subjects there's no need for it"I've got a suggestion for those of you who don't believe in freedom of speech and, instead, have appointed yourselves The Language Police:

    Get your own fucking blog.

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  12. I think its sad when we are sitting here bickering back and forth about the validity of Chiropractic based on the concepts it originated from?

    Is it impossible for Chiropractic to evolve and grow as a medical art?

    If I'm not mistaken the practice of Modern medicine has some shaky roots. It wasn't long ago we were drilling into patients heads who were having head aches! Or Blood leading to get rid of disease. Both very radical approach's by modern standards of medicine. Yet we are not saying Modern Medicine is a crock because of were it originates.

    Chiropractic may have been founded by and eccentric individual, but its practices have come so much further then that. As student DC. tried to show you with case study's.

    But its obvious arguing will never change your mind it will only further convict you in your own beliefs.

    Get with it weather you like or not we help people and the Medical community has maid leaps and bounds to except over the last 15-20 years.

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  13. FemaleDCstudentfFloridaMay 12, 2009 at 2:47 PM

    I hardly know what to say to all of your ignorant, unsubstantiated comments directed at me.

    Ill address the God comment first. I am not a cultist, God just does not need to be brought into a science based conversation. Chiropractic and medicine are both sciences as well as arts. God is not an essential ingredient it either of these topics we are discussing.

    Me being a woman should have nothing to do with this, but obviously you have made it a factor, without due cause. I have given you no reason to say "You're a sheltered, pampered, idiot who has decided exploiting others in pain is a good occupation, and nothing more." This statement couldnt be the farther from the truth, obviously you have something against the female sex.
    Im sorry if you have a problem knowing that a woman is smarter than you...fact is that this may be the case in this situation.

    An intelligent person would be able to look at an argument and see it from both sides and make an INFORMED decision based on that, not a bias that you have already developed toward it.

    What experience do you have with chiropractic, what research have you done? What is your background?

    I really enjoy how you only chose to comment on all of the same things you have already stated; you have nothing additional to say. At least we are trying to throw studies out there or examples. You just keep coming up with 'cultist' and 'idiot' as your responses to everything. Try something new!

    My story may not mean anything to you, but believers of chiropractic all have stories. Either of how they were helped by a chiropractor, how someone the know was helped by a DC, or how DCs have helped others. Most research articles about chiropractic are about how people have been helped by the science of chiropractic. I must point out that you also included a personal story: I've had "highly invasive back surgery that generally doesn't help" and it's done wonders for my life, so what are you talking about? I am an intelligent person who can deduct from that story that surgery is needed for some, we are definately not arguing that. We would just like people to think about chiropractic before invasive surgery as most people would perfer a spinal manipulation vs an expensive, invasive, painful, procedure that will keep them out of work due to a long recovery time.

    I would just like to reiterate, we have nothing against medical doctors, we just want to take a different approach to helping the patient. Our goal, first and foremost, is to help the patient! If that takes referring them/or co-managing them with a medical dr. so be it if that is the best for the patient.

    There are many sceptics to chiropractors as well as articles written bashing chiropractic, but the same thing can be said of medical doctors.

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  14. FemaleDCstudentFloridaMay 12, 2009 at 3:03 PM

    Here are a few quotes from research journals about some of the issues you have had with chiropractic...hopefully you will actually read these, instead of just using your biased opinion as the answer to end all answers.

    For Acute and Chronic Pain

    “Patients with chronic low-back pain treated by chiropractors showed greater improvement and satisfaction at one month than patients treated by family physicians. Satisfaction scores were higher for chiropractic patients. A higher proportion of chiropractic patients (56 percent vs. 13 percent) reported that their low-back pain was better or much better, whereas nearly one-third of medical patients reported their low-back pain was worse or much worse.”

    – Nyiendo et al (2000), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics



    In a Randomized controlled trial, 183 patients with neck pain were randomly allocated to manual therapy (spinal mobilization), physiotherapy (mainly exercise) or general practitioner care (counseling, education and drugs) in a 52-week study. The clinical outcomes measures showed that manual therapy resulted in faster recovery than physiotherapy and general practitioner care. Moreover, total costs of the manual therapy-treated patients were about one-third of the costs of physiotherapy or general practitioner care.

    -- Korthals-de Bos et al (2003), British Medical Journal





    In Comparison to Other Treatment Alternatives

    “Acute and chronic chiropractic patients experienced better outcomes in pain, functional disability, and patient satisfaction; clinically important differences in pain and disability improvement were found for chronic patients.”

    – Haas et al (2005), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics



    “In our randomized, controlled trial, we compared the effectiveness of manual therapy, physical therapy, and continued care by a general practitioner in patients with nonspecific neck pain. The success rate at seven weeks was twice as high for the manual therapy group (68.3 percent) as for the continued care group (general practitioner). Manual therapy scored better than physical therapy on all outcome measures. Patients receiving manual therapy had fewer absences from work than patients receiving physical therapy or continued care, and manual therapy and physical therapy each resulted in statistically significant less analgesic use than continued care.”

    – Hoving et al (2002), Annals of Internal Medicine





    For Headaches

    “Cervical spine manipulation was associated with significant improvement in headache outcomes in trials involving patients with neck pain and/or neck dysfunction and headache.”

    -- Duke Evidence Report, McCrory, Penzlen, Hasselblad, Gray (2001)

    “The results of this study show that spinal manipulative therapy is an effective treatment for tension headaches. . . Four weeks after cessation of treatment . . . the patients who received spinal manipulative therapy experienced a sustained therapeutic benefit in all major outcomes in contrast to the patients that received amitriptyline therapy, who reverted to baseline values.” ‘

    -- Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics, Boline et al. (1995)





    Cost Effectiveness

    “Chiropractic care appeared relatively cost-effective for the treatment of chronic low-back pain. Chiropractic and medical care performed comparably for acute patients. Practice-based clinical outcomes were consistent with systematic reviews of spinal manipulative efficacy: manipulation-based therapy is at least as good as and, in some cases, better than other therapeusis.”

    – Haas et al (2005), Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics





    Patient Satisfaction

    “Chiropractic patients were found to be more satisfied with their back care providers after four weeks of treatment than were medical patients. Results from observational studies suggested that back pain patients are more satisfied with chiropractic care than with medical care. Additionally, studies conclude that patients are more satisfied with chiropractic care than they were with physical therapy after six weeks.”

    -- Hertzman-Miller et al (2002), American Journal of Public Health





    Popularity of Chiropractic

    “Chiropractic is the largest, most regulated, and best recognized of the complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) professions. CAM patient surveys show that chiropractors are used more often than any other alternative provider group and patient satisfaction with chiropractic care is very high. There is steadily increasing patient use of chiropractic in the United States, which has tripled in the past two decades.”

    – Meeker, Haldeman (2002), Annals of Internal Medicine

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  15. Mr. Crack Emcee,

    I would like to know what you define as an elitist?

    If it is some one who came from a hard working blue color family who is struggling to survive. Your looking at the words of the first person to go to college on my dads side of the family and the second on my mothers. Sounds pretty elite right. Maybe and elitist is also some one who is taking out countless loans to pay his own way through school so I can one day make a positive impact on some one else life. If that's an elitist you got me you called it that's me.

    I think you have an extremely jaded idea about our profession. As I said it will do us no good to continue to argue with some one who is unwilling to listen or consider something out side of his own current web of beliefs. I hope one day I get to be your Chiropractor so can change your mind.

    I feel comfortable though if anyone reads this blog skeptics and believes we have at least provided basis for what we believe, and they will walk away making a informed decision on the validity of Chiropractic rather then reading your unfounded negative remarks and walking away with the wrong idea.

    I wish you the best in life.

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  16. The knowledgeable Hippocrates has said many profound statements especially about medicine. So much so that MDs still take the Hippocratic Oath. What do you think of this quote of his, "Look well to the spine for the cause of disease"? Long before DD's time.

    To me it seems bc chiropractic could not help you that you now shut out everything to do with it. Would you do the same to the MD's if they couldn't help you with a problem? I'm not asking you to embrace it or tell people about it. I want a rational reason why you say it doesn't work. And if you pull the personal story thing, well you already said those mean nothing.

    Say whatever you want about God and speak however you wish. That's your business but you should have the respect for other people. I guess that's above you, you think your shit doesn't stink...

    "First, if you were any kind of doctor/scientist/thinker, you'd know that your personal story means nothing when presented as evidence for chiropractic's efficacy."

    So your story doesn't back up the validity of back surgery? You would not refer someone to the surgeon who helped you? In fact in your words it means nothing. There may be no known mechanisms for some of what we do in chiropractic but the medical profession doesn't know everything about the body either either.

    Does a case report count? I mean it is written using official medical documents/records by a doctor.

    "I guess the medical professionals never ever chop off the wrong limb, or put someone under for surgery and they never wake up, or after waking up they have a heart attack,..."Idiot: that still doesn't prove your shit works. God, for someone who considers himself doctor material, you sure are dumb"

    No, NO you're the idiot. This was in reference of your statement"...and you can't admit to yourself what an idiot and an asshole you can be until you've really screwed somebody over". Reading comprehension? I'm starting to think that you never made it out of high school.

    Story time:
    Objective: Comparison of the risk factors identified in one patient and the outcome of treatment, with the epidemiological risk factors identified in the literature that predispose to otitis media with effusion that can potentially influence the outcome of chiropractic treatment. The aim of this case study is to focus practitioners when taking a case history, in order to aid an individual prognosis and treatment plan for each patient.

    Clinical features: A 31/2-year-old boy presented to a chiropractic clinic with a 10-month history of continuous discharge with a distinctive smell emanating from both his ears. Upon a routine 3-year check-up for his hearing, 4 months prior to consultation, a slight hearing deficit had been identified. This was being reviewed in 2 months’ time with consideration for myringotomy and tympanostomic tube insertion. Cervical and thoracic segmental dysequilibrium was found on static motion palpation, suggesting the presence of a chiropractic vertebral subluxation complex at these levels.

    Intervention and outcome: The patient was treated 4 times using cervical paediatric adjusting. Activator technique was applied to the thoracic region. Discharge from the ears disappeared immediately after the first visit. An improvement in hearing was identified at a hearing test 3 months after cessation of chiropractic care. Consequently, myringotomy and tympanostomic tube insertion was considered inappropriate. The patient now uses oil drops to prevent cerruminum accumulation. At 6 years old, he has had no further recurrences of OME and no speech or hearing problems are apparent.

    Conclusion: Of the risk factors identified with the onset of otitis media with effusion, this patient exhibited the following: premature birth, breech presentation, low birth weight, time spent in intensive care, exclusive formula feeding, day care attendance and 2 or 3 recurrent episodes of ear infection for which antibiotics were prescribed. Despite these factors, the patient made rapid symptomatic improvement in a single treatment.

    Precious pills didn't work this time but you can always use your back-up: spontaneous remission.

    do you like me? do i care? do i like you? do you care? "Ahh, but do they like YOU?[MD's referring to DC's]" some will some won't. you are the king of generalization.

    "...at the tender age of 10 I knew better than to believe such nonsense. (Watching people kill each other wantonly can do that - where was your loving God then?) You're a sheltered, pampered, idiot..."

    Sheltered... bc she didn't have to watch people murder others? I wonder how many people out there have witnessed it first hand. It truly sucks that this happen but to call someone sheltered for having never witnessed murder? By the way she was a nurse and I'm sure she has witnessed death. And that's a great question,"where was God". I don't know, no one does.

    "But you could care less because you're going to shove your bullshit down their throats - and into their profession"

    Their profession...do they own it, did they purchase the patent to it? What if someone in their profession embraces what i do? Do you stone them?

    "Second, why should I leave God out of it? Or are you admitting, as all cultists eventually do, that your silly belief system would be nothing without some kind of "spiritual" mumbo-jumbo thrown in?"

    There is no spiritual aspect to chiropractic if you are not spiritual, just like life and perhaps you. The spiritual aspect comes into play when your patient happens to be spiritual.

    And what's with the snake oil, is that what you use to fit your head up your ass?

    How do you make decisions? Would you go buy a house, or any big purchase, w/o some research? I'm just wondering why research is valid for medicine but not chiropractic?

    "What? Do you think chiro exists without a history, stupid? It's quackery and always has been. It's "inventor" was a magnetic healer! You can't get more quack than that. And the rest of you just keep it going, despite it's history of failure. What now? Are you going to show me all the case studies of it's success, or just keep giving me your bullshit stories of how wonderful it is?"

    Does medicine exists w/o a history? Does anything really? What about these little color boxes were using to argue? They took up whole rooms in their beginning and now you can get them the size of a day planner.

    If research papers and case studies can't reach that tiny little brain of yours, I'm definitely sure you never made it out of high school. You're so smart, I hope I can be like you one day.

    DD may have founded chiropractic, but it was his son BJ who truly developed it. Using cutting edge research starting in the early 1900s, he even used xray back then.

    I'm really having trouble with you saying chiropractic can do no good to anyone when it's written in black and white, and published in peer reviewed medical and chiropractic journals. I think you might have the swine flu.

    Can you tell me of all these failures? Wilk V AMA and others, that was a failure...for the AMA.

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  17. where you been Crack? I miss you

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